As a man who just turned 30 I hear this argument a fair amount. I wish I could provide a coherent argument for what is going on, but this seems overly simplified. As one of those men paying X$ a month for dating apps with zero matches, I am frustrated to say the least. Is it women to blame? No. Is it men to blame? Also no.
I hear the whiny complaints you describe from some of my male friends (particularly the older and relatively less well off ones) and they are also missing it. It seems to me that everyone is desperate for meaningful connection, but that showing any amount of desperation is an instant turn off. Instead we craft these 'perfect' descriptions of ourselves on the dating apps and treat individuals like amazon products.
An aside: Asking women out in public, this is one of those weird things that growing up I felt I was instilled with the belief that this was 'inappropriate'. And now I get chided for not asking women out, even when occasionally female friends will tell me it would be 'creepy' for me to ask out a woman I don't know. Note that I am not great socially so not exactly like this would be my preferred method, but does feel like the messaging is inconsistent.
Ladies, in a few years, you’ll be middle aged, single, no children and therefore alone on Valentine’s Day. I’ve met women in that position. They are sad and frustrated, and many of them don’t understand why. They are the cat ladies, the dog hoarders, and the aunts of grown children living in homes filled with toys that are no longer played with or touched. Then when they reach 70, they are frustrated because no one ever visits them or even calls. And I’m SWM, Gen X, so I know how this feels too. You better start looking (and willing to compromise when you do find someone), lest you find yourself alone when approaching retirement age.
I too am a fan ,Danielle. I can agree with most of your views.
It has been a long time since I was single and dating. I believe most men are a lot simpler then women think. They do often have a different interpretation of a situation when asked.
In one city the question would be if you rent or own? Another place would be finding out what your parents do for a living. I think these questions should be asked and more to get a better understanding of the individual. They say we don’t pick who we fall in love with. Our head may fight our heart but if not congruent they are not good for you. We pick our partner. No one person is100% package but neither are we. The man is good looking by how he treats me and others.
Don’t de-emasculate. Don’t use the word “no” to them without a thank you. Allow them to “fix” some things. The act speaks louder then the word. When I ask my husband what makes him feel loved he said
“Supporting each other”. Ask your men this question.
I will read everything you write, Danielle, and that’s without even knowing that you mentioned me! I think we all have to have compassion for each other: men and women, Republicans and Democrats. We need each other, now, more than ever.
A lot of my friends have given up on dating (like the guys described in the FP article). The thing that gets me is so many of them have a ton of potential. I want to help them so badly, but they don't want my help. I'm afraid of them turning into bitter, old men or killing themselves at 30 because they still haven't found a girlfriend.
I thought smart and nerdy guys was one of today’s attractions. Identifying with a same goal or interest is a start. You can learn from a female friend and if she is into you she will let you know. Realistic expectations as Danielle said,not only pick big buxom blonde with own company. Good reading and good luck to you singles out there.
P.s. Do Not give or send money. That is my own most important rule.
Money doesn’t buy love and in today’s internet singles apps it is probably a scam.
I am a fan of your work, Danielle, and I appreciate your perspective on this. However, it would seem to me there is a complete lack of understanding and appreciation for what the opposite sex looks for in a partner.
Women are often attracted to competence, success. Men, on the other hand, are attracted to "pretty, fun, and feminine". The rise of women educationally and professionally is great and all, but a woman's professional pedigree does not necessarily make her more sexually attractive.
Jordan Peterson has spoken at length about how women date "across and up" and men date "across and down" hierarchies. Meaning, a woman with a graduate degree who makes $80,000 a year necessarily creates a "floor" educationally and professionally. As women have achieved more educational and professional success over the last 20 years than men, men have become the scarce resource. This would explain why short-term, non-monogamous sexual activity is the norm among the well-educated, successful single men. As The Beach Boys sang, "two girls for every boy".
Ultimately, it's the flattening of the dating market that has destroyed heterosexual love, IMO. As a former "Chad" myself, you're only a few messages and a round of drinks away from sex. Love? That requires a level of investment and interest in a person very few are willing to invest when everyone is shopping at The Boyfriend Store/ Build-a-Beauty.
It was sometimes very frustrating reading this article. It seems like there is 0 compassion or understanding for most men just because of one guy. Even though it seems to be a mutual issue where both men and women aren't finding partners, it seems like an article written out of anger rather than trying to figure out the core issue and how it can be solved. The intro especially doesn't help as it basically instantly polarizes people. Imagine instead of the current intro the intro changed to "WOMEN, PLEASE LISTEN. The men around you are working out, making money and improving themselves. At least one of them wants to be your boyfriend. They are not the problem. You are the problem." I'm sure that would have been incredibly offensive to single women reading who are putting in a genuine effort. It's also so funny that even when trying to be sort of sympathetic to men, it turns back to us somehow being the problem again. Instead of doing the tried and tested criticism sandwich, you invert it to causes more issues.
I think instead of taking just a one sided biased view on this, you should have maybe talked to more men out there as to why they think there is issues or why they're struggling. A lot of the things you talked about can honestly be very easily proven wrong. Yes, this guy had some issues, but that doesn't mean all men are like that. I've had my own issues with dating, but does that mean I'm sabotaging myself? Does that mean I'm only going after the "Ashley's"? No, very far from the truth.
You lack a lot of understanding from the guys side of this situation and you seem to try to fill that understanding with women do. For example, that men only really swipe on the "cheerleaders of dating apps" when in fact, if you've talked to basically any guy or seen their dating app habits, for the most part, it's just indiscriminately swiping right or "yes" on most women. It's why if you compare matches between men and women on dating apps, even on the same "level" in terms of looks, women have so many more matches. Sure guys would love to have the cheerleaders, but assuming because they use that as an example, means they only want them is rather silly. If Jamall was only going after Ashley's has his standard, why did he go on that date? And why did he instantly find something that made him not want to continue the date? If she was so much more attractive than him, I'm sure he would have overlooked something like that. The funny thing is that women do this exact same thing as well yet I don't see you making an article about how it's womens fault...
I'll try and help with giving a bit more context on the guys side of things. Though before I do, I would suggest that attacking men isn't the smartest or best way to try and help this situation out. If anything you're only causing men to be defensive and upset when reading this article, and getting exactly 0 help from it. I understand that you think men aren't trying to improve at all, but I think that's just a falsehood. I know men are trying to improve and do better. But I often find that even after that happens, they don't magically have their solution. Even when you do put in the effort it's often not recognized by the people that you hoped. Sure maybe general people like your friends might notice, but dating apps and romantic partners might not.
I think your look into things is far too oversimplified. What's causing men to act the way they are isn't just because for some random reason we're all worse this generation. For example, I know for me and those around me, the reason we don't just ask out women in person is because we've been told so many times that it's creepy or that women don't want to be bothered when going about their life. In fact this was just said in an article I read about going on cruises while single. A quote straight from the article "I've met men on several cruises traveling as a single woman. Men have approached me at the breakfast table or when I'm reading in the pool — anytime, really. The downside of this is that men you're not interested in will also chat you up in these same places.". Men don't want to be seen as the creepy dude, and seeing as often the only difference between being seen as creepy or as cute is if you're attractive or the other person is interested in you, we don't want to take that chance.
I really don't think it's fair to blame men exclusively for there being less people in relationships. I think a lot of it has to do with dating apps and how it's changed things completely. I think it affects both men and women negatively.
I think one of the major things that isn't really talked about and I think is behind a lot of the issues is male confidence. I think it's part of the reason to blame for why there isn't more IRL connections and why there is so much of trend in guys being single. I know for me I just completely stopped trying in terms of dating because of it. Even after working on myself it took a lot to even think about going back into trying, and even then I'm just done with dating apps. To put into perspective why, a lot of it has to do with seeing results. I would poor myself into trying to make a good dating app profile, I'd get great pictures of myself, ask for advice from people in my life, both guys and girls as to what could improve, if it looked good, how my bio could be better, how I could improve my pictures, etc. But in the end it didn't really change much. And it's not like I just did it once and then coasted and hoped things would get better. But the results just really didn't change. I wouldn't just try and match with the most attractive looking girls because I find a wide variety of women attractive. And even then, when we matched and I'd message (I'd put in some effort, try to find something from their profile to talk about, or make a witty or funny intro), and often I'd not even get a response or I'd get very dry texts. Once again, I enlisted my friends to help to see if I was the problem, what I could do to improve, and there wasn't really much feedback. So after months and even years of this I couldn't take it and deleted the apps. I found that the apps didn't really have much hope. And I've found this to be similar for a lot of men. Hardly any matches even with effort and if they did, they got the same results. Very few women were actually interested in making a genuine connection. I think that is one major thing you really overlooked when talking about this. And when dealing with that over months and years, it really starts to weigh on your self-confidence and makes you think you're the problem. Which isn't good for trying to find a potential match. Dating apps have become less of a place to find people to date and seemingly more and more just for validation.
Love is blind is an interesting example. I think the reason why so many need to go on a reality TV show is because people nowadays are mostly just looking for validation or quick fun rather than a real relationship. And even when looking for a real relationship, the focus is still on the outside rather than who the person really is. I also think it kind of goes against your point that men are so picky when especially last season, we see that men care a lot less about looks. After becoming engaged and getting to see the guy and going to the resort, one of the women just wasn't attracted to the one dude even after getting that connection. And not only that, but a couple of them were trying to break other couples up because they were interested in another man.
To end this, I agree with the words of your husband. Though I think it's still a 2-way road. It's not just men that need to improve. It also seems funny to me that you created this article after creating and article previously on why dating apps are so bad yet seemingly not connecting the dots that it's not just a men issue. Also reminds me of the podcast you did with Nancy Jo about her book on dating apps.
As a man who just turned 30 I hear this argument a fair amount. I wish I could provide a coherent argument for what is going on, but this seems overly simplified. As one of those men paying X$ a month for dating apps with zero matches, I am frustrated to say the least. Is it women to blame? No. Is it men to blame? Also no.
I hear the whiny complaints you describe from some of my male friends (particularly the older and relatively less well off ones) and they are also missing it. It seems to me that everyone is desperate for meaningful connection, but that showing any amount of desperation is an instant turn off. Instead we craft these 'perfect' descriptions of ourselves on the dating apps and treat individuals like amazon products.
An aside: Asking women out in public, this is one of those weird things that growing up I felt I was instilled with the belief that this was 'inappropriate'. And now I get chided for not asking women out, even when occasionally female friends will tell me it would be 'creepy' for me to ask out a woman I don't know. Note that I am not great socially so not exactly like this would be my preferred method, but does feel like the messaging is inconsistent.
Article I thought of when I read this: https://default.blog/p/86-rejection-sensitivity
Ladies, in a few years, you’ll be middle aged, single, no children and therefore alone on Valentine’s Day. I’ve met women in that position. They are sad and frustrated, and many of them don’t understand why. They are the cat ladies, the dog hoarders, and the aunts of grown children living in homes filled with toys that are no longer played with or touched. Then when they reach 70, they are frustrated because no one ever visits them or even calls. And I’m SWM, Gen X, so I know how this feels too. You better start looking (and willing to compromise when you do find someone), lest you find yourself alone when approaching retirement age.
I too am a fan ,Danielle. I can agree with most of your views.
It has been a long time since I was single and dating. I believe most men are a lot simpler then women think. They do often have a different interpretation of a situation when asked.
In one city the question would be if you rent or own? Another place would be finding out what your parents do for a living. I think these questions should be asked and more to get a better understanding of the individual. They say we don’t pick who we fall in love with. Our head may fight our heart but if not congruent they are not good for you. We pick our partner. No one person is100% package but neither are we. The man is good looking by how he treats me and others.
Don’t de-emasculate. Don’t use the word “no” to them without a thank you. Allow them to “fix” some things. The act speaks louder then the word. When I ask my husband what makes him feel loved he said
“Supporting each other”. Ask your men this question.
I will read everything you write, Danielle, and that’s without even knowing that you mentioned me! I think we all have to have compassion for each other: men and women, Republicans and Democrats. We need each other, now, more than ever.
A lot of my friends have given up on dating (like the guys described in the FP article). The thing that gets me is so many of them have a ton of potential. I want to help them so badly, but they don't want my help. I'm afraid of them turning into bitter, old men or killing themselves at 30 because they still haven't found a girlfriend.
I thought smart and nerdy guys was one of today’s attractions. Identifying with a same goal or interest is a start. You can learn from a female friend and if she is into you she will let you know. Realistic expectations as Danielle said,not only pick big buxom blonde with own company. Good reading and good luck to you singles out there.
P.s. Do Not give or send money. That is my own most important rule.
Money doesn’t buy love and in today’s internet singles apps it is probably a scam.
I am a fan of your work, Danielle, and I appreciate your perspective on this. However, it would seem to me there is a complete lack of understanding and appreciation for what the opposite sex looks for in a partner.
Women are often attracted to competence, success. Men, on the other hand, are attracted to "pretty, fun, and feminine". The rise of women educationally and professionally is great and all, but a woman's professional pedigree does not necessarily make her more sexually attractive.
Jordan Peterson has spoken at length about how women date "across and up" and men date "across and down" hierarchies. Meaning, a woman with a graduate degree who makes $80,000 a year necessarily creates a "floor" educationally and professionally. As women have achieved more educational and professional success over the last 20 years than men, men have become the scarce resource. This would explain why short-term, non-monogamous sexual activity is the norm among the well-educated, successful single men. As The Beach Boys sang, "two girls for every boy".
Ultimately, it's the flattening of the dating market that has destroyed heterosexual love, IMO. As a former "Chad" myself, you're only a few messages and a round of drinks away from sex. Love? That requires a level of investment and interest in a person very few are willing to invest when everyone is shopping at The Boyfriend Store/ Build-a-Beauty.
It was sometimes very frustrating reading this article. It seems like there is 0 compassion or understanding for most men just because of one guy. Even though it seems to be a mutual issue where both men and women aren't finding partners, it seems like an article written out of anger rather than trying to figure out the core issue and how it can be solved. The intro especially doesn't help as it basically instantly polarizes people. Imagine instead of the current intro the intro changed to "WOMEN, PLEASE LISTEN. The men around you are working out, making money and improving themselves. At least one of them wants to be your boyfriend. They are not the problem. You are the problem." I'm sure that would have been incredibly offensive to single women reading who are putting in a genuine effort. It's also so funny that even when trying to be sort of sympathetic to men, it turns back to us somehow being the problem again. Instead of doing the tried and tested criticism sandwich, you invert it to causes more issues.
I think instead of taking just a one sided biased view on this, you should have maybe talked to more men out there as to why they think there is issues or why they're struggling. A lot of the things you talked about can honestly be very easily proven wrong. Yes, this guy had some issues, but that doesn't mean all men are like that. I've had my own issues with dating, but does that mean I'm sabotaging myself? Does that mean I'm only going after the "Ashley's"? No, very far from the truth.
You lack a lot of understanding from the guys side of this situation and you seem to try to fill that understanding with women do. For example, that men only really swipe on the "cheerleaders of dating apps" when in fact, if you've talked to basically any guy or seen their dating app habits, for the most part, it's just indiscriminately swiping right or "yes" on most women. It's why if you compare matches between men and women on dating apps, even on the same "level" in terms of looks, women have so many more matches. Sure guys would love to have the cheerleaders, but assuming because they use that as an example, means they only want them is rather silly. If Jamall was only going after Ashley's has his standard, why did he go on that date? And why did he instantly find something that made him not want to continue the date? If she was so much more attractive than him, I'm sure he would have overlooked something like that. The funny thing is that women do this exact same thing as well yet I don't see you making an article about how it's womens fault...
I'll try and help with giving a bit more context on the guys side of things. Though before I do, I would suggest that attacking men isn't the smartest or best way to try and help this situation out. If anything you're only causing men to be defensive and upset when reading this article, and getting exactly 0 help from it. I understand that you think men aren't trying to improve at all, but I think that's just a falsehood. I know men are trying to improve and do better. But I often find that even after that happens, they don't magically have their solution. Even when you do put in the effort it's often not recognized by the people that you hoped. Sure maybe general people like your friends might notice, but dating apps and romantic partners might not.
I think your look into things is far too oversimplified. What's causing men to act the way they are isn't just because for some random reason we're all worse this generation. For example, I know for me and those around me, the reason we don't just ask out women in person is because we've been told so many times that it's creepy or that women don't want to be bothered when going about their life. In fact this was just said in an article I read about going on cruises while single. A quote straight from the article "I've met men on several cruises traveling as a single woman. Men have approached me at the breakfast table or when I'm reading in the pool — anytime, really. The downside of this is that men you're not interested in will also chat you up in these same places.". Men don't want to be seen as the creepy dude, and seeing as often the only difference between being seen as creepy or as cute is if you're attractive or the other person is interested in you, we don't want to take that chance.
I really don't think it's fair to blame men exclusively for there being less people in relationships. I think a lot of it has to do with dating apps and how it's changed things completely. I think it affects both men and women negatively.
I think one of the major things that isn't really talked about and I think is behind a lot of the issues is male confidence. I think it's part of the reason to blame for why there isn't more IRL connections and why there is so much of trend in guys being single. I know for me I just completely stopped trying in terms of dating because of it. Even after working on myself it took a lot to even think about going back into trying, and even then I'm just done with dating apps. To put into perspective why, a lot of it has to do with seeing results. I would poor myself into trying to make a good dating app profile, I'd get great pictures of myself, ask for advice from people in my life, both guys and girls as to what could improve, if it looked good, how my bio could be better, how I could improve my pictures, etc. But in the end it didn't really change much. And it's not like I just did it once and then coasted and hoped things would get better. But the results just really didn't change. I wouldn't just try and match with the most attractive looking girls because I find a wide variety of women attractive. And even then, when we matched and I'd message (I'd put in some effort, try to find something from their profile to talk about, or make a witty or funny intro), and often I'd not even get a response or I'd get very dry texts. Once again, I enlisted my friends to help to see if I was the problem, what I could do to improve, and there wasn't really much feedback. So after months and even years of this I couldn't take it and deleted the apps. I found that the apps didn't really have much hope. And I've found this to be similar for a lot of men. Hardly any matches even with effort and if they did, they got the same results. Very few women were actually interested in making a genuine connection. I think that is one major thing you really overlooked when talking about this. And when dealing with that over months and years, it really starts to weigh on your self-confidence and makes you think you're the problem. Which isn't good for trying to find a potential match. Dating apps have become less of a place to find people to date and seemingly more and more just for validation.
Love is blind is an interesting example. I think the reason why so many need to go on a reality TV show is because people nowadays are mostly just looking for validation or quick fun rather than a real relationship. And even when looking for a real relationship, the focus is still on the outside rather than who the person really is. I also think it kind of goes against your point that men are so picky when especially last season, we see that men care a lot less about looks. After becoming engaged and getting to see the guy and going to the resort, one of the women just wasn't attracted to the one dude even after getting that connection. And not only that, but a couple of them were trying to break other couples up because they were interested in another man.
To end this, I agree with the words of your husband. Though I think it's still a 2-way road. It's not just men that need to improve. It also seems funny to me that you created this article after creating and article previously on why dating apps are so bad yet seemingly not connecting the dots that it's not just a men issue. Also reminds me of the podcast you did with Nancy Jo about her book on dating apps.